Steven 'Sharpteeth' Durante (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
fingersandteeth) wrote2022-02-21 05:11 pm
fingersandteeth) wrote2022-02-21 05:11 pm
In its specificities, yes. But he's not the first man who's spent his entire relationship lying to the person he loves out of fear of rejection.
Does he know you know?
Does he need somewhere else to stay?
Does he know you know?
Does he need somewhere else to stay?
I would not call him a man, but that's not important. He does not know, but he will soon.
With that being said, he might seek succor elsewhere. Once upon a time I might have spoken with confidence in knowing what he might do, but if aught at all, this has shown me otherwise.
With that being said, he might seek succor elsewhere. Once upon a time I might have spoken with confidence in knowing what he might do, but if aught at all, this has shown me otherwise.
Right. I've been assuming he identifies as male, but what do I know of Amaurotine gender politics?
I'll see if Jack's okay with him bedding down at our place. It's not like we don't have a fuckton of guest rooms.
I'll see if Jack's okay with him bedding down at our place. It's not like we don't have a fuckton of guest rooms.
I'm not sure if he will or not. I did much the same as he did to my first long-term boyfriend--except my deception was that I was a person with a normal mind, not that I was a construct of loving memory--and his response was throwing me out of his apartment. (Luckily, I still had my own as the lease wasn't up.) I don't know if I would have left on my own otherwise.
I probably would have.
Speaking as someone in Hythlo's position, I can say from experience that he didn't hide it out of malice. It would have been because he couldn't bear the thought of you looking at him as if he were something awful and alien and unrecognizable, once you knew what he really was.
I probably would have.
Speaking as someone in Hythlo's position, I can say from experience that he didn't hide it out of malice. It would have been because he couldn't bear the thought of you looking at him as if he were something awful and alien and unrecognizable, once you knew what he really was.
I cannot in good conscience say that you and he have shared a similar situation. While both of you did lie to your love, you are still you, regardless of what misconceptions your lover had about the character you portrayed. That aside, you did not pretend to be the lover lost to his failure.
However, I believe this may be an area that we will disagree on, for we view the world much too differently. The laws of my world, of reality, of the very nature of creation magic dictates that which is beyond your ken. This is not your fault, but I cannot be swayed from knowing the truth of these immutable laws.
He might feel, know, remember that which Hythlodaeus once did, but he is not Hythlodaeus. He is but an illusion made by a wretched man in mourning. A cruel and pitiful mistake made by a distracted mind, but he will never be my Hythlodaeus, for he cannot be.
This is not his fault, but his deception certainly is.
However, I believe this may be an area that we will disagree on, for we view the world much too differently. The laws of my world, of reality, of the very nature of creation magic dictates that which is beyond your ken. This is not your fault, but I cannot be swayed from knowing the truth of these immutable laws.
He might feel, know, remember that which Hythlodaeus once did, but he is not Hythlodaeus. He is but an illusion made by a wretched man in mourning. A cruel and pitiful mistake made by a distracted mind, but he will never be my Hythlodaeus, for he cannot be.
This is not his fault, but his deception certainly is.
To me, it's similar enough.
You're right that he'll never be the Hythlodaeus that you lost. But he's still *a* Hythlodaeus, even if he's not the right one, and you might come to care for him in his own right. Hell, he's the only Hythlodaeus *I've* ever known--though I'm sure your original one was as wonderful exasperating as this one.
Just. I don't know. Try not to fuck him up too much in the inevitable fight? I know that you're angry at him. He lied to you for so long. But my ex-, the one I did a similar thing to... we *really* fucked each other up in the fight that ensued. Not at all physically. No punches were thrown. But psychologically and emotionally it was a bloodbath. And sure, part of that is that my ex- had a hair-trigger temper like Tyler's and I got pissed off to the point that I was metaphorically going for the throat by the end, but that doesn't change the fact that you have the potential to really *hurt* him, just by who you are to him.
And Hades? You're *cutting*. Especially as Emperor Solus, but I suspect as yourself as well.
Just. Fuck. I don't know. Try not to say things you can't take back?
You're right that he'll never be the Hythlodaeus that you lost. But he's still *a* Hythlodaeus, even if he's not the right one, and you might come to care for him in his own right. Hell, he's the only Hythlodaeus *I've* ever known--though I'm sure your original one was as wonderful exasperating as this one.
Just. I don't know. Try not to fuck him up too much in the inevitable fight? I know that you're angry at him. He lied to you for so long. But my ex-, the one I did a similar thing to... we *really* fucked each other up in the fight that ensued. Not at all physically. No punches were thrown. But psychologically and emotionally it was a bloodbath. And sure, part of that is that my ex- had a hair-trigger temper like Tyler's and I got pissed off to the point that I was metaphorically going for the throat by the end, but that doesn't change the fact that you have the potential to really *hurt* him, just by who you are to him.
And Hades? You're *cutting*. Especially as Emperor Solus, but I suspect as yourself as well.
Just. Fuck. I don't know. Try not to say things you can't take back?
[It's funny, isn't it? That merely a handful of days ago this conversation would not be happening at all. That they were both far less amicable with one another, but now...
The worst part is this peace was brought not by either of them, but by Hythlodaeus. Nothing can ever be simple, can it?]
Tell me something, Steven. If you lost Jack, and then another Jack appeared, but you knew well that he was not the man you lost, nor even human, how would you feel? How would you contend with that?
Would it not feel like a betrayal to the man you loved to replace him with a copy? To continue as if he was never lost?
I do not plan to cut him down, but he will know my mind. He will know what wrongs he has committed, but I aim to reprimand him, not harm him. Yet, well do I know my temper.
The worst part is this peace was brought not by either of them, but by Hythlodaeus. Nothing can ever be simple, can it?]
Tell me something, Steven. If you lost Jack, and then another Jack appeared, but you knew well that he was not the man you lost, nor even human, how would you feel? How would you contend with that?
Would it not feel like a betrayal to the man you loved to replace him with a copy? To continue as if he was never lost?
I do not plan to cut him down, but he will know my mind. He will know what wrongs he has committed, but I aim to reprimand him, not harm him. Yet, well do I know my temper.
[Steven takes a moment to think about that.]
No. It *would* feel like a betrayal to. I understand that much. I wouldn't be able to continue with him.
And I don't mean to say that *you* should continue on with him as if he were the Hythlodaeus you lost either. You *shouldn't*. He is absolutely *not* a replacement for *your* Hythlodaeus.
Just-- don't close yourself off to becoming friends again with *this* Hythlodaeus, even if you can't love him like the one you knew before. Not as a replacement for the one you lost, but as a person in his own right. Because even if he started his existence as someone created from your own memories, he's grown from that.
No. It *would* feel like a betrayal to. I understand that much. I wouldn't be able to continue with him.
And I don't mean to say that *you* should continue on with him as if he were the Hythlodaeus you lost either. You *shouldn't*. He is absolutely *not* a replacement for *your* Hythlodaeus.
Just-- don't close yourself off to becoming friends again with *this* Hythlodaeus, even if you can't love him like the one you knew before. Not as a replacement for the one you lost, but as a person in his own right. Because even if he started his existence as someone created from your own memories, he's grown from that.
I know you will not like to hear this, but I am not about to pretend otherwise: he is not a person. He is a construct. He is without a soul, and therefore exists outside of the natural order of life. He is no more a living person than a clock. He is programmed to act as he does, he is following a script not unlike a computer program, but a computer is not a person.
What he feels, thinks, and knows are all by this script, and while he is malleable, this does not make him alive. I am not saying this to be cruel, but he is a product of magic that my people have perfected over eons, so I suggest you try not to argue with that which you cannot begin to comprehend the complexity of. These are the immutable laws I spoke of, and no one's opinion can change them.
We cannot create true life through these magicks, only a mock of it, and that is what he is. Unfortunate as it is, cruel as it is, there is no denying reality. Wishing it were otherwise will not make it so.
Nevertheless, as I said, I will not forsake him.
What he feels, thinks, and knows are all by this script, and while he is malleable, this does not make him alive. I am not saying this to be cruel, but he is a product of magic that my people have perfected over eons, so I suggest you try not to argue with that which you cannot begin to comprehend the complexity of. These are the immutable laws I spoke of, and no one's opinion can change them.
We cannot create true life through these magicks, only a mock of it, and that is what he is. Unfortunate as it is, cruel as it is, there is no denying reality. Wishing it were otherwise will not make it so.
Nevertheless, as I said, I will not forsake him.
Edited 2020-09-10 03:42 (UTC)
[Steven sighs deeply, counts to ten, and rakes his fingers back through his hair.]
I'm not going to get too in-depth in arguing with you and admittedly my opinions on these matters are largely a product from years of science fiction with robots and AIs as fully realized characters (and also from how my baby sister used to tell me when she was small that she was going to make robots someday and I'd have to be a good uncle to them.)
But to me, that doesn't say 'not a person.' That just says 'not alive.'
But maybe being alive or originally having been alive (because arguably he is alive now that he's human here) *is* part of *your* definition of person, even though it's not part of mine.
I'm glad you won't forsake him. But you should probably be prepared for him to leave *you* if that's how you view him.
He can stay here if he does. I'll talk to Jack about it.
I'm not going to get too in-depth in arguing with you and admittedly my opinions on these matters are largely a product from years of science fiction with robots and AIs as fully realized characters (and also from how my baby sister used to tell me when she was small that she was going to make robots someday and I'd have to be a good uncle to them.)
But to me, that doesn't say 'not a person.' That just says 'not alive.'
But maybe being alive or originally having been alive (because arguably he is alive now that he's human here) *is* part of *your* definition of person, even though it's not part of mine.
I'm glad you won't forsake him. But you should probably be prepared for him to leave *you* if that's how you view him.
He can stay here if he does. I'll talk to Jack about it.
This is exactly why I said as I did, that you would not like to hear this. You see, you view what was very much my reality through a lens of fiction, a narrative shaped by those without true experience nor perspective on such matters for they have never lived such a reality. Your enjoyment of this fiction does not trump my lived experience, nor the judgments and necessities of such distinctions within my world.
Life indeed is a qualifier for personhood. These facts, while not kind to some, are necessary when it comes to administering judgments that could very well affect an entire planet. We cannot ignore reality because we do not like it, that would be irresponsible. After all, we of The Convocation were tasked with such a grand scale responsibility, and thus we have to view such matters with complete objectivity.
Do not misunderstand me, this does not come from a place of contempt nor malice, but Hythlodaeus' existence is merely an extension of my own. In a sense, and in very simple terms, he is a portion of myself shaped and formed into the likeness of my dearly departed, but he is not his own existence, and never can he be, not truly.
All the same, you have my gratitude.
Life indeed is a qualifier for personhood. These facts, while not kind to some, are necessary when it comes to administering judgments that could very well affect an entire planet. We cannot ignore reality because we do not like it, that would be irresponsible. After all, we of The Convocation were tasked with such a grand scale responsibility, and thus we have to view such matters with complete objectivity.
Do not misunderstand me, this does not come from a place of contempt nor malice, but Hythlodaeus' existence is merely an extension of my own. In a sense, and in very simple terms, he is a portion of myself shaped and formed into the likeness of my dearly departed, but he is not his own existence, and never can he be, not truly.
All the same, you have my gratitude.
De nada.
But really, it's no trouble. Tulpa or not, Hythlodaeus is still my friend.
(My little sister and the dozen robot children she never lived to create would have something else to say to you about your personhood qualifications... but as nicely distracting as a debate on 'Are Robots, Tulpas, and AIs People?' might be, I suspect we're too new in our civility to each other to keep from it blowing out of hand, so let's not tonight.)
But really, it's no trouble. Tulpa or not, Hythlodaeus is still my friend.
(My little sister and the dozen robot children she never lived to create would have something else to say to you about your personhood qualifications... but as nicely distracting as a debate on 'Are Robots, Tulpas, and AIs People?' might be, I suspect we're too new in our civility to each other to keep from it blowing out of hand, so let's not tonight.)
[He stares at "Tulpa" with withering patience, but decides to ignore the fact that both Steven and Dirk have called Hythlodaeus it. There's no way for Steven to know this, and thus the use is innocent and not provocative.]
Indeed. Thus I was not attempting to get into a debate with you about it, for our experiences and perceptions are far too different to enter one without some measure of strained patience, and our bond cannot likely weather such.
Besides, I still have Hythlodaeus to speak to, so you have the right of it. Tonight is not the night.
Indeed. Thus I was not attempting to get into a debate with you about it, for our experiences and perceptions are far too different to enter one without some measure of strained patience, and our bond cannot likely weather such.
Besides, I still have Hythlodaeus to speak to, so you have the right of it. Tonight is not the night.
You do. Good luck.
[Somebody needs to tell Jack they've got a potential houseguest.]
[Somebody needs to tell Jack they've got a potential houseguest.]
Hythlodaues stares at his phone for a moment, trying to think of what exactly he's going to say here. Hades left for work, he's otherwise alone with his thoughts and the cutieflies. He can't even think of the last time he's felt the need to be cheered up.
Steven. I would request some of your time when you are available.
He looks at his sent message. He felt so strangely disconnected from his words, from himself. He supposes he could at least be a little more specific.
Sooner than later, I think.
Steven. I would request some of your time when you are available.
He looks at his sent message. He felt so strangely disconnected from his words, from himself. He supposes he could at least be a little more specific.
Sooner than later, I think.
Edited 2020-09-21 07:24 (UTC)
The reply comes right away, despite this being the hour when Steven would normally be sleeping.
Sure, but I still have to leave at half-past eleven to go to work. Do you want to come over to my place?
Sure, but I still have to leave at half-past eleven to go to work. Do you want to come over to my place?
I shouldn’t leave Hades alone... But on second thought, you might punch him in the head if you get close enough.
Ahh, I apologize. I’m not quite sure what I want from this.
A pause.
Did I wake you?
Ahh, I apologize. I’m not quite sure what I want from this.
A pause.
Did I wake you?
You did, but I went to bed a little earlier than usual just in case. Hades texted me yesterday to warn me that he and you were going to have a difficult conversation.
He said he wasn't going to kick you out, no matter how it went, but if you need to get away from him, I asked Jack already and he's okay if you want to sleep in the guest room for a while.
I'm not going to punch Hades, unless you think he needs punching.
He said he wasn't going to kick you out, no matter how it went, but if you need to get away from him, I asked Jack already and he's okay if you want to sleep in the guest room for a while.
I'm not going to punch Hades, unless you think he needs punching.
Not precisely. I am... less than happy for a variety of reasons.
Perhaps I had let myself forget that I’m not the real Hythlodaeus for a bit too long.
It is no matter, that fact does not bother me, merely... I merely became a bit greedy. I don’t like watching Hades mourning me while I can see him do it, I suppose.
Perhaps I had let myself forget that I’m not the real Hythlodaeus for a bit too long.
It is no matter, that fact does not bother me, merely... I merely became a bit greedy. I don’t like watching Hades mourning me while I can see him do it, I suppose.
Edited 2020-09-24 03:09 (UTC)
I mean. Who would?
I can't blame him for being upset for being lied to and for you not being *his* you, but at the same time, I completely understand why you didn't say anything. I was in your place too, almost a decade ago.
But look. You might not be the *original* Hythlodaeus, but you're the only Hythlodaeus that *any* of us here except Hades and Elidibus have ever known. I know he's your creator in a way and is important to you because of that, but even if he doesn't think you're a person... I do. I don't care if you're a tulpa. You're still *my* Hythlodaeus.
I can't blame him for being upset for being lied to and for you not being *his* you, but at the same time, I completely understand why you didn't say anything. I was in your place too, almost a decade ago.
But look. You might not be the *original* Hythlodaeus, but you're the only Hythlodaeus that *any* of us here except Hades and Elidibus have ever known. I know he's your creator in a way and is important to you because of that, but even if he doesn't think you're a person... I do. I don't care if you're a tulpa. You're still *my* Hythlodaeus.
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